How We Transitioned from Regular Jobs to Filmmaking as a Duo | Exclusive with Directors Ted and Max | Ajay Tambe

[00:00:00] I want to be the brain behind those things, who create those movies.

[00:00:06] First, I wanted to be an actor who watched Die Hard and those movies.

[00:00:11] Oh, so you are the Die Hard fan.

[00:00:13] I tried different jobs whilst avoiding doing the one thing that I actually wanted to do,

[00:00:19] because I always told myself, and I think it's one of the things that you hear a lot,

[00:00:24] especially coming from a smaller country like, because I'm from Bulgaria,

[00:00:28] and you hear a lot of, you know, well, that's basically impossible.

[00:00:32] Don't do that. Do something important.

[00:00:34] You know, so I did lots of jobs in computing.

[00:00:37] Yeah, and because I'm from Austria, it's quite an impossible thing to achieve, making movies.

[00:00:46] And yeah, like waiting for Big Macs to show up.

[00:00:50] Yeah, do something else. Do something normal.

[00:00:54] None of them were exciting, you know?

[00:00:56] And so, teaching is a profession and it's one of those where no two days are the same.

[00:01:04] And you know, I do different subjects in my career, but I always wanted to do films.

[00:01:11] And growing up, much like Max, we used to go to the video rental store all the time,

[00:01:18] and I would go three times a week, four times a week to get like, you know,

[00:01:22] you get two or three cassettes and you watch them and then you get another two or three, you know, VHS tapes.

[00:01:29] During that time I was always writing on a CD.

[00:01:34] It was this big martial arts film which I wanted to make as my first feature.

[00:01:41] So I was working on that for years.

[00:01:44] And, you know, one year passed, another year passed, and I thought, OK, I'd better do something now.

[00:01:51] So I pushed it forward and see how the skills needed.

[00:01:57] And yeah, I don't know what the specificity was, but at one point I said, yeah,

[00:02:02] if you want to do this, you better do it now.

[00:02:04] I always thought it was kind of this impenetrable thing to get to directing a film.

[00:02:10] Until I was getting ready for university. This was before university, before the computer animation.

[00:02:16] I watched The Matrix and I was a big fan of The Matrix when it first came out in 1999.

[00:02:21] But I watched the making of Behind the Scenes.

[00:02:24] It's called like two extra DVDs on the box set there.

[00:02:27] And you can watch that and it shows you it was it was about four hours of behind the scenes interviews

[00:02:33] and chats with everyone and lots of interviews with the directors,

[00:02:37] showing you behind the scenes of how they made the film.

[00:02:40] And I was watching this thing. I was thinking, I could make a film.

[00:02:48] Morning. So hey, everyone, I am Ajay Tambe, the host and producer of Create Your Own Years.

[00:02:55] Jotin broadcast. And today this is kind of new format for 2024 where two directors,

[00:03:01] the director duo, I'm interviewing them.

[00:03:03] I'm kind of looking to discover something new with the show at the same time, you know,

[00:03:09] trying to break the movie into parts and divide it into what the situation was

[00:03:14] and how you did it in a way of when people look at that scene, they feel like, oh, this is intriguing.

[00:03:21] And I just stopped that moment and I was completely into that scene.

[00:03:25] So we're trying to discover how these guys build this scene, how these guys build this moment

[00:03:30] that for a moment you're thinking about your bills and checks and payments and all.

[00:03:34] And suddenly that moment captures you.

[00:03:36] And that's where you are. Oh, I need to watch what happens next.

[00:03:40] So this is kind of way where we actually talk about movies and how the film was shot with the directors.

[00:03:45] This is a new way I only used to first of all interviews with actors.

[00:03:49] Now I have directors with me, so I thought, OK, I can do this.

[00:03:54] And important part here is Wayne Reed, you know, from Knights of Avalon.

[00:03:58] And two years back he was shooting a film and these are the directors of that film Thieves in the Night.

[00:04:04] Welcome. Welcome to the show, Ted and Max.

[00:04:06] Hi, how are you doing? I'm good. I'm good.

[00:04:09] So just a quick reference to all.

[00:04:13] Wayne Reed was working in the film Thieves in the Night and we got into conversation in December,

[00:04:19] our Christmas and New Year special 12 episode series, The Knights of Avalon.

[00:04:22] That's where Ted got to know about our show and me and what we do.

[00:04:26] And he was like, hey, I have something for you, you know,

[00:04:28] and I would like to share the stories for Thieves in the Night.

[00:04:32] And that's where you thought, OK, we can do something.

[00:04:35] And I thought, hey, let's do it next.

[00:04:37] And this is today. So I'd like you all to first introduce yourself.

[00:04:41] So every listeners and viewers will get an idea.

[00:04:44] Ted, you go first.

[00:04:45] Well, hi, I'm Ted Donchev and one of the writer and directors of Thieves in the Night.

[00:04:52] And that's the film that we currently have debuted on Amazon Prime in some in some countries.

[00:04:59] The UK and the US and in other countries, it's on other platforms.

[00:05:03] So, yeah, you can look it up.

[00:05:07] But yeah, and I got involved in filmmaking seriously when I went to film school

[00:05:13] and I met this other chap on your screen, Max.

[00:05:18] Well, hello, I'm Max Poroshenko and I'm the other guy, the director of this show.

[00:05:26] Yeah, Ted, the way we are going to go ahead here is I'd like to know because one thing I saw you guys are in the business from last, I guess, 10 plus years, right?

[00:05:36] In the films and all. How many years you've been in this field?

[00:05:39] I think it's seven now, Max. I think it's seven. It's not ten.

[00:05:44] I think we met 2017 in film school.

[00:05:49] OK, 2017, I guess. OK, so like six, seven years in this field.

[00:05:54] And I guess before that, were you doing the same thing or completely different thing?

[00:05:58] Absolutely not. I was a banker for nine years and then I said, yeah, if I want to do that, I have to do it now because I live in Austria in a small village

[00:06:09] and we didn't have really film schools except Europe.

[00:06:12] I want to go to Vienna maybe and then I'm not sure if there is something.

[00:06:17] Sorry? No, no, go on, go on. Yeah, and that's where I decided.

[00:06:22] Yeah, I'm going to film school. I also wanted to do it in English.

[00:06:27] So yeah, applied to some film schools in England and I was going to film school in the UK.

[00:06:34] I wanted to do it in English. So yeah, applied to some film schools in England and got into Brighton.

[00:06:42] Yeah, that's where we met. OK, Ted, you can go on.

[00:06:47] Well, my journey was kind of similar before joining film school and before starting this journey with Max.

[00:06:55] I was a teacher for 10 years, teaching at various schools in England and various subjects and stuff.

[00:07:02] But before that, at university, I did computer animation because I always wanted to tell stories and make films.

[00:07:08] It's just, you know, directing a film is one of those dreams that people have where it's like, well, it's basically impossible.

[00:07:16] So why not give up on that and try and do something else?

[00:07:20] And so my way of doing something else was was doing computer animation where at least OK, but it's achievable.

[00:07:26] You know, it's not like being a film director where it's so incredibly hard to get into that.

[00:07:31] So my way of getting into it was was doing was doing film animation at at university.

[00:07:36] But here in the UK, there isn't that much work at the entry level of film animation.

[00:07:42] So I ended up doing a whole bunch of other things and eventually I enjoyed teaching.

[00:07:46] But but yeah, and and you know, in 2017, I joined Brighton Film School as one of the better film schools in the UK on this program.

[00:07:58] And I met Max and I was yeah, I was very happy to do so because we were able to do quite a lot of things together since we've done every project pretty much.

[00:08:07] Yeah. And several short films.

[00:08:11] This is how you started.

[00:08:13] Yeah, that's how we started.

[00:08:15] Well, so at film school, the story is that, you know, you end up being paired up with people on various projects and you normally change around.

[00:08:23] But we started working on the very first project and we like each other's style.

[00:08:28] We kind of have different skills, but also we agree stylistically on most things, which I think is very helpful.

[00:08:35] So me and Max are very different. But at the same time, we we both agree on what a story should be, which I think is very true.

[00:08:45] Just just hold on, hold on.

[00:08:47] I'm going to talk a lot about how you guys do things in very particular questions.

[00:08:52] Don't tell everything in one question.

[00:08:54] So here's the thing to everyone before we are to everyone before we begin.

[00:08:59] We are now connected in three different countries.

[00:09:01] Max is now in Austria.

[00:09:03] It is in England.

[00:09:04] I am in India and this is kind of creative energy that's passing on at this moment.

[00:09:09] So here's the thing.

[00:09:11] Seven years doing filmmaking, direction acting, hiring people, looking for castings, you know, working on small things, trying to figure out that line, that plot, that scene, staying up all in the night and you know that late night shoots that you do is hectic.

[00:09:25] There's a lot of acidity happening and there's a lot of things that, you know, things doesn't go the way they're tight schedule.

[00:09:31] Now in 2020 for your guys are in that.

[00:09:35] But let's focus back on the period where, you know, how do you truly started in this field?

[00:09:42] What actually made you, hey, I want to be in this business.

[00:09:47] And that's where you took because now I came to know that Max was working in the bank.

[00:09:52] Right. It was it was completely nine to five job and about you did I forgot what you're doing, but you were not doing the same thing.

[00:10:00] No, I was teaching.

[00:10:01] I was a teacher.

[00:10:02] Yeah, you were teacher.

[00:10:03] So now these are two different professions, you know, when you guys watch film, it's like escape from your real world.

[00:10:11] Now to come up with a mentality to, hey, I want to make this.

[00:10:17] That requires a different kind of thing that's going on in your mind and in your head from last four or five years.

[00:10:22] So tell me about what happened that you jumped into this field.

[00:10:26] Max, you want to go first?

[00:10:29] Yeah, you mean how we got interested in film or what was the decision to leave the job?

[00:10:35] Oh, yeah, same.

[00:10:36] Two things are the same.

[00:10:38] Like how you got I mean, not interested, but what made you jump?

[00:10:42] Yeah. So I always wanted to be involved in filmmaking my entire life.

[00:10:49] First, I wanted to be an actor, watched Die Hard and those movies about oh yeah.

[00:10:55] So you are the Die Hard fan?

[00:10:57] Not a Die Hard Die Hard fan, but you know there are movies where people are fans.

[00:11:05] The Bruce Willis action movies made me want to be an actor.

[00:11:09] And then what changed my mind on being a director and writer was when I think I was seven or so.

[00:11:17] I watched Pulp Fiction and the scene where John Travolta shoots Bruce Willis.

[00:11:21] And I thought oh this is a moment, a big thing.

[00:11:25] I want to be the brain behind those scenes who creates those moments.

[00:11:31] Wow, that's good.

[00:11:33] Yeah, and you know because I'm from Austria, it's like that's an impossible thing to achieve making movies.

[00:11:42] And yeah, like they're waiting for Big Macs to show up.

[00:11:46] Do something else, do something normal.

[00:11:49] So that's how I got into the bank stuff because that's how you used to do it.

[00:11:56] During that time I was always writing on a screenplay.

[00:12:02] It was this big martial arts film which I wanted to make as my first feature.

[00:12:10] So I was working on that for years.

[00:12:12] And one year passed, another year passed and I thought okay, I better do something now to push it forward.

[00:12:22] See how the skills are needed.

[00:12:25] I don't know what it specifically was but at one point I said yeah, if you want to do this you've got to do it now.

[00:12:34] So you just resigned or was that planned resignation?

[00:12:40] Like how you got off your job?

[00:12:42] You planned like okay in these four months I'm going to go off the job or you just know that's it, I'm off.

[00:12:47] Because the financials also matters here.

[00:12:49] How you planned it?

[00:12:51] Yeah, I had a little bit savings so I don't know if I could afford to go to England.

[00:12:59] I gave my boss quite a heads up after a few months since at that point I will be leaving so that was all fine.

[00:13:12] So you planned it properly and you make sure that whoever your boss was knows that.

[00:13:18] Important thing here is to note is he knows what his financials was, how many money he had in his bank account and what kind of money films could charge to do one session or two classes, three classes.

[00:13:32] And he knew that okay this is the money I will need if I'm planning something to do it and he had it.

[00:13:38] And I guess that's the very calculated risk that you took to get into this field.

[00:13:43] And I guess you writing something when you were working in a bank job writing screenplays, that's crazy things.

[00:13:49] You know, you calculating something and then writing some fiction, pulp fiction like some karate thing you're writing.

[00:13:56] So was this the childhood thing that you imagined?

[00:13:59] Hey, I'd like or it just happened like how was your childhood related to movies and films like attraction wise?

[00:14:07] We watched movies all the time.

[00:14:10] On the weekends we went to a videotaped, I don't know what it's called, the proper word where you can rent movies.

[00:14:18] And we rented three movies a day, brought it back and interviewed with us.

[00:14:25] And then I was playing with my little action papers and I thought oh this should be a movie.

[00:14:32] Wow, so kind of good.

[00:14:35] Okay, go on.

[00:14:36] I just want to say what you learned from your films.

[00:14:40] Yeah, yeah, I get it.

[00:14:42] You know these are the things that you know there's a lot of things going inside head where we visualize that whole drama is happening.

[00:14:49] But in front of us these are just toys that's in front of us.

[00:14:51] And that visualization I guess that's what kept you going till 2017 where you took the big jump and then put that visualization on board and in front of people.

[00:15:01] Thank you so much Max.

[00:15:02] Now I'm moving on to Ted.

[00:15:04] Ted, you go on.

[00:15:06] How did you jump on?

[00:15:07] First of all, how was it?

[00:15:08] What kind of school?

[00:15:09] Teacher please tell us about the whole job.

[00:15:11] How have you decided to know I'm going to be a teacher?

[00:15:14] Like that's rare.

[00:15:15] Tell me.

[00:15:17] Well, yeah.

[00:15:20] I always had many different jobs before becoming a teacher.

[00:15:26] I think you know after graduating computer animation and then not finding anything in computer animation around, I ended up trying a whole bunch of different jobs.

[00:15:37] I was an insurance salesman.

[00:15:39] I sold computer equipment to whole businesses.

[00:15:45] You were the salesman.

[00:15:46] So I did a lot of selling.

[00:15:48] Oh, that's how you got me.

[00:15:50] And I did many different jobs and I always got bored.

[00:15:56] So for example when I was working as an insurance salesman, as soon as I learned all the things that I need to say to get cheaper insurance, I lost interest in working that job because I learned everything that would be useful in real life from it.

[00:16:09] I was a barman for many years.

[00:16:12] So the point is that I tried different jobs whilst avoiding doing the one thing that I actually wanted to do.

[00:16:19] Because I always told myself and I think it's one of the things that you hear a lot, especially coming from a smaller country like because I'm from Bulgaria.

[00:16:28] And there are a lot of you know, well, that's basically impossible.

[00:16:32] Don't do that.

[00:16:33] Do something.

[00:16:34] You know, so I did lots of jobs in computing.

[00:16:37] I was, you know, I could do programming, I could do graphic design, 3D animation, all those things.

[00:16:45] But none of them were exciting, you know?

[00:16:48] And so teaching is a good profession and it's one of those where no two days are the same.

[00:16:56] You know, I had two different subjects in my career.

[00:16:59] But I always wanted to do films and growing up much like Max, we used to go to the video rental store all the time.

[00:17:09] And I would go three times a week, four times a week to get like, you know, you get two or three cassettes and you watch them and then you get another two or three VHS tapes.

[00:17:21] And because I'm old, yes VHS.

[00:17:23] It was all VHS back then.

[00:17:25] I know that.

[00:17:26] I also grew up in the same background.

[00:17:29] You know, we are a little bit behind where the culture was in the rural areas of India.

[00:17:33] So I get it.

[00:17:34] Yeah, yeah, the VHS and you have to rewind it otherwise you get a fine.

[00:17:38] It was standard.

[00:17:41] But so I grew up watching films and I always thought it was kind of this impenetrable thing to get to directing a film.

[00:17:49] Until I was getting ready for university.

[00:17:52] This is before university, before the computer animation.

[00:17:55] I watched The Matrix and I was a big fan of The Matrix when it first came out in 1999.

[00:18:00] But I watched the making of Behind the Scenes is a whole like two extra DVDs on the box set there.

[00:18:06] And you can watch that and it shows you it was it was about four hours of behind the scenes interviews and chats with everyone and lots of interviews with the directors showing you behind the scenes of how they made the film.

[00:18:18] And I was watching this thing and I was thinking.

[00:18:21] I could make a film, you know, like yes, not at the level of The Matrix.

[00:18:25] Obviously, but it shows you a little bit of hey, this is what you need.

[00:18:30] And I was looking at myself at the time and I was thinking, well, maybe I could make a film.

[00:18:35] Who knows?

[00:18:36] So many, many, many years later, I actually decided to take the plunge and go to Brighton Film School and we made for some films.

[00:18:46] You know, which is which is pretty crazy because film school was an interesting experience.

[00:18:51] But the best thing about it was meeting some really, really good people, mostly Max, who has been there since the beginning.

[00:18:59] Yeah.

[00:19:01] So that was the journey.

[00:19:03] Got it. Got it. Got it.

[00:19:04] So the salesman part is really important.

[00:19:06] You know, it's not the thing that was keeping you behind.

[00:19:09] It was a thing that is that is going to help you now in coming years, because that's how you get the marketing part and the salesman side of things.

[00:19:15] And the salesman sales basically is very important in this field, because if you are independent, if you are doing by your own, you should know how about all about marketing and how it's done and majorly how to pitch something or, you know, how to get someone on board.

[00:19:30] Because I guess that's one part I think that's helping you out today now in twenty twenty four.

[00:19:37] And I guess you you were also like movie buff four days a week in that store and grabbing some movies.

[00:19:44] So what was your parents reaction? What was going on with them?

[00:19:48] Like they were all OK with you. How were you in studies and all?

[00:19:52] And what was going on with it? Well, my parents, so my dad was a professor of psychiatry.

[00:19:59] So doctors and academics, they they they were not super pleased because they were hoping for something.

[00:20:08] You know, when I was teaching, they were they were they were happy that I was doing a serious job.

[00:20:13] But of course, you know, that's that's just that kind of point of view that we've all probably included at some point.

[00:20:20] So when I finally decided to do it, it was many questions of yes, yes.

[00:20:25] But where's the money? And initially when you when when when when you're starting out,

[00:20:30] I think, you know, you end up spending money instead of instead of a lot of money because that's how it is.

[00:20:37] Because you need to have some projects on the belt.

[00:20:40] Nobody's going to trust you with their money if you have done nothing.

[00:20:43] So raising funds is all about reduction of risk.

[00:20:48] And and that's what it is.

[00:20:50] So you need to show that you can do things and you can make projects happen because before that nobody wants to trust you with their money, which makes sense.

[00:20:57] You know, yeah, complete sense.

[00:20:59] So yeah, my parents were probably right in trying to discourage me because it's not, you know,

[00:21:05] it's not the easiest, the safest industry to get into.

[00:21:10] Yeah. But but but ultimately, I think it has its own rewards because you get to tell stories, which is very, very rare in the world.

[00:21:19] And now before I jump on to Max, how do you meet is what first, well, please tell me the jump part where you actually decided to remember the moment that you said, hey, now that's it.

[00:21:31] I'm not going to teach anymore.

[00:21:32] I'm going to the film school.

[00:21:33] I'm taking that thing and I'm making sure dedicating my rest of the life to that.

[00:21:38] Any flashback?

[00:21:40] Well, you know, it was it was an advert that I think I saw and somebody showed me that there are film school courses that are actually affordable.

[00:21:51] And I didn't have to quit teaching immediately.

[00:21:55] I could still do it for some days of the week.

[00:21:58] And then and then obviously went to film school.

[00:22:00] So I continued teaching film school and it was only the year after the after that, that I left.

[00:22:06] We were already I remember we were writing the script for thieves in the night and I was teaching biology at that point.

[00:22:14] And and so when you left and I was I was writing somebody's death.

[00:22:20] I think the point is that there's a crossover period.

[00:22:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

[00:22:26] I get now I came to know that you were teaching at the same time.

[00:22:29] So you are multitasking.

[00:22:31] You're putting the all creative mind inside that film, but you're also making sure that you what are you going to teaching?

[00:22:36] What are you going to teach the next day?

[00:22:38] You know that these kids are going to expect something from me tomorrow.

[00:22:42] They are.

[00:22:44] And then when you you still teach or have left it like.

[00:22:49] No, no, I stopped doing that some years ago now.

[00:22:53] But it's you know, because it's something that you can't take a lot of the work home with you.

[00:22:59] So, you know, and you can't really focus on certain things.

[00:23:02] So it's helpful to to know.

[00:23:04] Yeah, I'm not doing that right now.

[00:23:06] OK, got it.

[00:23:07] Got it.

[00:23:08] So first of all, kind of different journey, you know, you guys met in a film school, right?

[00:23:11] So that's where you all started.

[00:23:14] So Max, tell me now you used to write screenplay, but you made any kind of short film or any kind of thing before meeting Ted before joining any kind of school and all.

[00:23:27] Yeah, when I was eight years old, I made a little cycle school film with the shows at my class.

[00:23:35] But that was mostly improvised.

[00:23:39] And with 12 or so, I met a screen school film with my with my cousin.

[00:23:48] But also it was random things connected.

[00:23:51] No, there was no real story in that.

[00:23:55] After that, I didn't shoot much because I wanted the screenplay to be right.

[00:23:59] And I wanted to make a feature film from the get go basically.

[00:24:04] When I made my first real short film was because of film school, because they wanted to see something.

[00:24:12] And I said, OK, let's do something.

[00:24:15] And I even had to act in it.

[00:24:17] And yeah, it's not great.

[00:24:19] But it's OK.

[00:24:21] OK, so eight year old Max was making film with his cousins and then suddenly jumping to like, I guess, I don't know how many years, but then directly in 2017.

[00:24:33] I guess that's a huge gap.

[00:24:34] But in between, you thought, OK, the whole creative energy is used.

[00:24:37] Now you need to improve on your screenplay.

[00:24:40] That was going on in your head.

[00:24:41] I guess that's what led you to.

[00:24:44] Yeah, I just wanted to have a good script to film.

[00:24:49] So before I'm not having a great script and filming it.

[00:24:54] That was why it took so long.

[00:24:56] Great to hear.

[00:24:58] You know, you got that clarity of, OK, now I want this.

[00:25:01] That's it. OK, great.

[00:25:02] What about you?

[00:25:07] There's a problem with your Wi-Fi.

[00:25:12] Sorry?

[00:25:14] Ted.

[00:25:16] Well, the script is very important.

[00:25:18] The script is very important.

[00:25:19] And so, yes, obviously, you always want to be making a feature film, a full length, you know, big film.

[00:25:25] However, when you start it.

[00:25:27] How you started?

[00:25:29] Well, how I started is I used to make little films on my dad brought back a VHS camcorder thing that you put on your shoulder.

[00:25:38] Like in your school days?

[00:25:39] No, back.

[00:25:40] Well, yes, back when I was, I don't know, I want to say 12, 13, something like this.

[00:25:45] And with my best friend in Bulgaria, we would we would make little silly, very, very silly films.

[00:25:53] But because it was mostly jokes and stuff.

[00:25:55] And we could, you know, we wanted to tell the stories.

[00:25:56] But obviously, you can't make serious films at that level.

[00:26:01] But, you know, I always wanted to play with Lego and recreating stories.

[00:26:07] It's been the Max mentioned Pulp Fiction Pulp Fiction was a big inspiration for me as well.

[00:26:12] I think that's one of the things that we bonded over in film school was Love for Tarantino.

[00:26:17] So that also helped.

[00:26:19] And yeah.

[00:26:20] And so before film school, I did two or three little short films either on my own or with my friend from Bulgaria or, you know, just sort of get the idea of what it is to make a story.

[00:26:34] What it makes. Yeah.

[00:26:35] You're just figuring out.

[00:26:36] Yeah, because I think it's important.

[00:26:38] Like, you know, you can't go to film school and expect expected to teach you everything you can't because you need to have tried all these things yourself.

[00:26:45] You need to have watched all the tutorials.

[00:26:47] And now we live in this amazing world where YouTube has everything and you can watch tutorials on how to set up the camera settings.

[00:26:54] What does what on the lights?

[00:26:56] And why would you use that light and not the other light?

[00:26:59] And, you know, which camera?

[00:27:01] What lens?

[00:27:02] What lens gives you what?

[00:27:03] And why should you do any of these things?

[00:27:05] All of this stuff is hours and hours and hours of research, watching reviews, watching people talk about it, listening to experts in their field, discuss using reviews.

[00:27:16] Discuss using various equipment.

[00:27:18] And at that time, it's still kind of a little bit academic because you're like, well, maybe one day.

[00:27:23] But you keeping that information in your head because when you go to film school, you can't expect them to teach you all that stuff.

[00:27:29] You know, you have to come there mostly prepared for me.

[00:27:33] That was my that was your point of view.

[00:27:36] I want to go to film school knowing all the stuff they're going to teach me already.

[00:27:40] I can focus on finding someone that I can tell stories with and making as many short films as possible instead of learning just ABC of it.

[00:27:51] You know, I guess I guess being a teacher that you being a teacher helped you a lot before, you know, just signing up as a student.

[00:27:58] I guess that job that you were doing as a teacher actually helped you.

[00:28:02] If I'm studying something, I need to know XYZ before because you know the end product of what happens next when you sign up for something.

[00:28:10] You can't expect someone to teach every single thing in that one or two hour and magic happens.

[00:28:15] You being a teacher, you understand that you have that empathy with that fellow teacher that, hey, he's going to teach me.

[00:28:21] But there is a limitation to that.

[00:28:23] And that's where you try to, you know, just dismantle that whole machine and then knowing all the parts.

[00:28:29] And then when the teacher is teaching you, you get it.

[00:28:32] OK, this is what he's talking about.

[00:28:34] This is what I should do.

[00:28:35] I guess, teacher being a teacher that helped you a lot before signing up.

[00:28:38] And that's great.

[00:28:40] Just one thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:28:42] I mean, that is it.

[00:28:44] First of all, just do one thing.

[00:28:45] Can you switch your laptop because there's a lot of light coming in on the light?

[00:28:50] Or you can just, you know, use the curtain to completely black that out.

[00:28:55] A bit of that. Just a bit more, a bit more.

[00:28:58] Yeah, that's perfect. That's perfect.

[00:29:01] Everything is good now.

[00:29:03] Now it's good.

[00:29:04] So first of all, you guys met in film school where you signed up for acting, right?

[00:29:08] Both of you know, it was directing, directing cinematography was the call.

[00:29:13] OK, got it.

[00:29:15] How many months? Six months, twelve months?

[00:29:17] I think it was a nine month course.

[00:29:20] Yeah, it was a full academic year.

[00:29:24] OK, OK. Ten months you spent together.

[00:29:27] What made you decide and in which month you decided that, hey, we can collaborate.

[00:29:32] We kind of, you know, we have the same energy for films.

[00:29:36] And two months, in second month.

[00:29:39] I think it was the second month.

[00:29:41] It was maybe even before that.

[00:29:45] When was the first?

[00:29:48] It was quite early on when the teacher said you two figure something out and you had a click basically.

[00:29:56] Yeah.

[00:29:57] Wow. So that's how you clicked.

[00:29:59] That's how you thought, hey, we have the same energy and we kind of match our thoughts.

[00:30:04] That's where you.

[00:30:05] We laughed at the same silly jokes.

[00:30:07] And so when it was, when the teacher asked us to get into pairs, we just, I remember we just kind of looked at each other and we just nodded.

[00:30:14] And that was the end of that.

[00:30:16] Because I remember like we were laughing at the same stuff.

[00:30:19] I can't remember what it was now.

[00:30:21] But the point is, I think there was some sort of synergy with our sense of humour there.

[00:30:26] Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:27] And ten months after that, what, because once the class is over and the whole thing is over, everyone goes back to where they came from, you know, because there's no surety in this field.

[00:30:36] There's very uncertainty what will happen next to us and blah, blah things.

[00:30:40] But what made you then to come up with the thought and a proper energy that, hey, I think we both can do something which led to foundation of RCC.

[00:30:52] Tell me that.

[00:30:53] So I'll tell you the story real quick and then Max can give some details because I remember quite clearly.

[00:31:00] So we started film school in September, right?

[00:31:04] I think it was early September.

[00:31:06] And by December, so the course finishes in July.

[00:31:09] By December we had, we were sitting in a pub trying to figure out the name of our first company because it was quite soon.

[00:31:18] Now, it was before the new year that we came up with the RCC.

[00:31:23] Oh yeah, show me that, keep that cup on the frame, you know, you can just watch that.

[00:31:28] So it was quite quick.

[00:31:31] It was because at film school, if you're doing directing and well, there isn't enough time in the course for everyone to get to direct.

[00:31:41] So everyone gets to direct a very limited amount of things at film school.

[00:31:46] Some people never get direct.

[00:31:48] We were lucky enough to direct at every opportunity.

[00:31:52] People seemed to like, you know, the stories that we were trying to tell.

[00:31:56] And even when we weren't allowed to pitch our own story, somebody else wanted us to direct their film, which was crazy.

[00:32:03] But that's still not enough things to get the experience that you need to make a big feature film, which is what we wanted.

[00:32:10] So we by I think it was January of 2018, we had already shot our first RCC short film, which is called Dead End.

[00:32:21] That's also available on YouTube.

[00:32:24] I'm going to link everything that you sent to me.

[00:32:26] I'm going to link everything in the episode description so people can check out what you are saying.

[00:32:30] Nice, because yeah, so that was the first short film that we made.

[00:32:33] And I think in the summer of 2018, we made Domino. Is that right Max?

[00:32:36] That seems correct to me.

[00:32:38] That was a short second short film.

[00:32:40] It was twice the length of the first one.

[00:32:42] It was a lot more ambitious.

[00:32:44] He has pyrotechnic special effects.

[00:32:49] And another thing, it was more about trying to learn as many skills as we could.

[00:32:54] Basically the third guy in our company, Matt, he was a DP, said yeah I have a shadow don't need.

[00:33:03] We can burn it for a film.

[00:33:05] And then we wrote a short script around it.

[00:33:09] Because you can't waste a burning skill.

[00:33:12] You might as well use it in making a film.

[00:33:14] True, true, true.

[00:33:15] How were you casting people at that point?

[00:33:17] Like any friends or you have artists at that point?

[00:33:20] What was the casting fee?

[00:33:22] We always use Star Now, the website.

[00:33:25] And even for the first feature we used that platform, it's pretty good.

[00:33:31] Okay, okay, that's the platform that you got artists to work with you.

[00:33:35] Even from your short films and all. Great, great thing.

[00:33:38] So I guess two months then you properly and now that company is running very good at this moment, right?

[00:33:44] Where you are coming up with projects after six months, four months.

[00:33:49] But great to know that you founded that within two or three months.

[00:33:53] That's rare to happen.

[00:33:55] This is really good part of you both.

[00:33:58] This chemistry is really good.

[00:33:59] Where creative minds coming together and then working out and coming with the name and company.

[00:34:05] And then starting getting films out of their body, their mind and making it happen kind of thing.

[00:34:11] So this is really good because this is the first time I came to know about how you thought of it.

[00:34:17] I thought it happened after 10 months.

[00:34:19] It's really good that it happened in two months that you can, hey, that's it.

[00:34:23] We've met and then we should do something and you are rocking it at this moment.

[00:34:29] So now here's the thing.

[00:34:31] We'll now quickly jump on to your film.

[00:34:33] He was in the night.

[00:34:35] So Ted, help me with in a simple words for 15, 16, 17 or anyone who's looking to know what this movie is about.

[00:34:41] Can you explain what he was in the night as?

[00:34:45] OK, well, Thieves in the Night is a suspense thriller, I would say, with an element of dark comedy.

[00:34:52] And it's a film about, well, about consequences of your actions.

[00:35:00] Basically these thieves, they break into a house looking to hide after doing a crime job somewhere.

[00:35:06] And they're not looking to rob the house.

[00:35:09] They're just looking to hide there overnight while the police search the area.

[00:35:13] But inside the house, they find a family who don't necessarily want to be kept hostage.

[00:35:21] And so some things happen and yeah, and then it's finished.

[00:35:27] Yeah.

[00:35:29] OK, Max, tell me how the castings happened for this film.

[00:35:33] How you got people in this film, like the casting process, how many months it took for you to just cast the characters properly?

[00:35:42] Casting was quite quick.

[00:35:45] It was quick. We used Star Now again and got hundreds of applications for each role.

[00:35:51] We put in a little character description, then we sent them a scene which then we asked them to film, record themselves, send the tape.

[00:36:00] Then we made some directions and asked to redo it with our input.

[00:36:05] And that's how we found people.

[00:36:09] And there were some surprises there. For example, Wayne, who plays Wayne in the film.

[00:36:16] We imagined that character to be quite different. More like David DeCopney, Clyde Owen type.

[00:36:27] Oh, OK, OK.

[00:36:29] And when I heard his voice for the first time, I was like, oh, OK.

[00:36:34] Yeah.

[00:36:35] Let's have an audition.

[00:36:38] And then he got it immediately.

[00:36:41] Got it.

[00:36:42] Yeah, and we were very lucky with our whole cast.

[00:36:47] There are some tricky characters in there.

[00:36:51] We had a lot of work on our staff, also amateur actors.

[00:36:58] We're going to find the right people to pull this off.

[00:37:01] Yeah, and yes, we absolutely did.

[00:37:04] Fantastic.

[00:37:05] Also tell me about the casting of Tim Cullingworth because that character is really interesting and catches eye anyone who's watching the film with his dialogues, the way he is telling the line.

[00:37:17] The one thing about Tim Cullingworth that made you OK, I think Tim should be a part of this project and he looks exactly what I imagine.

[00:37:26] What happened that you casted?

[00:37:29] That was one of the roles we were worried about casting because that is quite a character.

[00:37:36] I imagine him to be completely different from looks, but that's the good thing when you make movies, it's collaboration and the actors bring their own spin to it.

[00:37:47] They're changing the character quite a bit just with how they perform.

[00:37:52] And Tim, we asked him quite a few times to say something and then to make something different.

[00:38:01] So that was the longest character to say OK, we're testing a lot.

[00:38:10] You're doing a lot of auditions because you know Tim had to send seven tapes or so where he does it differently and I said maybe just a little bit different.

[00:38:20] Yeah, he's perfect in it.

[00:38:23] He's perfect in it.

[00:38:25] I think it's also one of the things we might get on that later when the way we shoot things is that we tend to let the actors play.

[00:38:35] And that means that they can reword things in their own voice if they want to try something different.

[00:38:43] In this, we use that as a sort of tool because sometimes we wouldn't tell the actors that are playing the family, the hostages, what's going to happen and what Tim is going to say as Cody, the character.

[00:38:56] And so sometimes we'll be talking to Tim and we'll be discussing the next thing and we'll make sure that the family doesn't know what's going to happen.

[00:39:08] So then when he explodes, it's more of a real reaction from the family.

[00:39:13] So there's a lot of improvisation.

[00:39:14] There was a good amount of improvisation.

[00:39:16] We did rehearsals a few times before we even started doing takes.

[00:39:21] And so we discovered a lot of these things in improvisation during rehearsals.

[00:39:25] And then if we liked it, we kept it.

[00:39:27] If we didn't, we took it away before we got to shooting.

[00:39:29] But we let them play because the best idea could come from anyone on the set.

[00:39:34] I've always believed that.

[00:39:35] And I think trying to be a director with a big ego, we think you know everything.

[00:39:39] It's not the best way to make a film.

[00:39:42] It's a collaboration and everyone is involved.

[00:39:45] And Tim improvised the whole scene.

[00:39:47] That was not in the script.

[00:39:49] Yeah.

[00:39:50] So whose idea was this to make this movie Thieves in the Night?

[00:39:57] Who came up with the idea of this film?

[00:39:59] It was like this.

[00:40:01] We had basically a finished script for a slasher film.

[00:40:05] OK.

[00:40:06] But it had much more locations.

[00:40:09] It was the biggest goal.

[00:40:11] And we said no one will give us money to make this.

[00:40:15] It would have cost half a million, four million.

[00:40:20] It would have cost a lot of money to make that film and to do it right.

[00:40:25] So yeah, we had a full script basically.

[00:40:27] And we were walking around the park and we came up with something different.

[00:40:31] Yeah, so we said OK, it has to be one location.

[00:40:35] So it's filmable and filmable fast and not too many characters.

[00:40:40] And then the news came out that Tarantino is making Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

[00:40:46] And it was more rumored to be a home invasion film with the man.

[00:40:51] So I said OK, OK, let's start the competition who makes the better home invasion film?

[00:40:55] Home invasion film.

[00:40:57] OK.

[00:40:59] That's the motivation.

[00:41:01] This isn't even a home invasion film.

[00:41:03] So he loses.

[00:41:05] OK, OK.

[00:41:07] Love that kind of motivation that you guys have.

[00:41:09] You know, you are really doing this well.

[00:41:12] First of all, really jumping on the part of.

[00:41:17] First of all, this character's Tim's character we discussed.

[00:41:21] Now we focus on the part where you sent me three portions of the story.

[00:41:28] Just hold on.

[00:41:29] You message me.

[00:41:31] It was the grandma story where Tim starts the monologue.

[00:41:35] And I guess after that, also, it was very intriguing.

[00:41:38] So go ahead and tell me about that, how you shot it.

[00:41:41] What was that?

[00:41:42] So OK, so Tim's grandma story, Cody's grandma.

[00:41:47] And also more ahead after that.

[00:41:49] Like one minute, three minutes was really interesting.

[00:41:52] Yeah.

[00:41:53] So that scene leads into the scene where he takes the daughter character Mia upstairs.

[00:41:59] And he's trying stuff which doesn't work, which is good.

[00:42:04] But anyway, so before that.

[00:42:06] So we had this scene where it's kind of an uncomfortable silence.

[00:42:11] And in the script, that's kind of what it was.

[00:42:13] It was an uncomfortable silence.

[00:42:14] It was quiet.

[00:42:15] And then somebody starts being bored and wanting to.

[00:42:19] And that's how we get to them needing a board game from upstairs.

[00:42:24] But on the day, we were messing around a little bit.

[00:42:30] And in the silence, Tim was saying some funny stuff just to crack everyone up, I think.

[00:42:38] OK.

[00:42:39] And also because it's a little bit creepy.

[00:42:43] This villain who's telling this sweet story about his grandma and in the sweet story, there's a twist to it.

[00:42:49] There's a turn.

[00:42:51] And once we started doing that, we like that he was making everyone uncomfortable, which obviously helps the tension of the scene.

[00:43:01] Yeah.

[00:43:02] But because it makes people uncomfortable, it also made them laugh a lot.

[00:43:08] We had we had about an hour or something like that scheduled to film this little bit of the of that scene.

[00:43:16] And I think it was about two hours later when everyone just kept on laughing every time Tim.

[00:43:23] Grandma, everyone was just so when he was saying that, what was the reaction to that?

[00:43:30] Like because it was complete silence.

[00:43:33] Well, the thing is, it's the first time he said that the grandma shocked herself is the thing.

[00:43:42] But I don't want to reveal too much of that story.

[00:43:44] I think it's too funny.

[00:43:46] But the first time she said that, everyone just started laughing and they did not stop laughing.

[00:43:52] Yeah, Max.

[00:43:54] And then all of a sudden, time starts to run out.

[00:43:57] OK, we're not getting to see them because everyone laughs.

[00:44:01] And then we said, OK, family, everyone out.

[00:44:05] We're just filming Tim's speech now with no one in the room.

[00:44:08] Yeah.

[00:44:09] So then we at least had his part of the scene so he could deliver his speech without anyone interrupting.

[00:44:17] Then we got the family back in and then we filmed their reactions.

[00:44:21] Yeah.

[00:44:22] We want to come back in, we cooled down and then it worked.

[00:44:25] But to film his part, we had to send everyone else.

[00:44:28] Yeah.

[00:44:29] So I guess how many days it took to shoot this whole thing?

[00:44:34] Three weeks.

[00:44:36] Three weeks?

[00:44:37] And the prep process?

[00:44:39] Prep process was quite long.

[00:44:43] So what we did is we did a little bit of crowdfunding.

[00:44:47] And for that, we shot a trailer.

[00:44:51] Before we shot the film, we shot all the cast in and made this trailer.

[00:44:56] So that was also good because you see, is it working?

[00:45:02] It is.

[00:45:03] OK.

[00:45:04] That's a test.

[00:45:05] And then we changed a couple of the cast and then we were ready.

[00:45:16] Because also we had tried a little bit of the process ourselves.

[00:45:20] We knew how quickly we can work.

[00:45:23] That gave us an idea.

[00:45:25] Because that was three weeks of very intensive shooting every day.

[00:45:29] Apart from one day a week, we gave people a break.

[00:45:33] But we were working from nine-ish to about ten in the evening.

[00:45:39] Sometimes a bit earlier.

[00:45:41] Yes.

[00:45:42] 30 hours.

[00:45:43] But yeah, obviously with breaks, we gave them lots of food.

[00:45:46] They were very well fed.

[00:45:50] I remember that time.

[00:45:55] That's the time where I called Wayne Reed and told him, hey, I got something for you.

[00:46:00] And he's like, hey, I'm in the middle of shooting.

[00:46:02] After midnight, I can do this recording.

[00:46:04] I have a mic.

[00:46:05] That was the conversation I had with him in the night.

[00:46:07] So that's why I can record.

[00:46:09] Yeah, go on.

[00:46:10] Yeah, we wanted to shoot it earlier.

[00:46:13] But then COVID happened.

[00:46:15] Oh, yeah.

[00:46:16] So we had to delay it for at least a year.

[00:46:20] About a year.

[00:46:21] So you're saying you shot apart and then the rest was shot after a year?

[00:46:25] No, no.

[00:46:26] We were about to plan the shoot.

[00:46:28] Oh, okay.

[00:46:29] So everyone was cast already.

[00:46:31] And then COVID happened so we couldn't do it.

[00:46:34] So we had to wait a year.

[00:46:36] That was our secret good thing in this car.

[00:46:40] Because we used that year to go through the script one more time.

[00:46:45] And had quite a lot.

[00:46:47] So what we ended up shooting was a lot better than what we would have if COVID didn't happen.

[00:46:52] Because it forced us to take a break.

[00:46:54] And so we reviewed it one more time.

[00:46:57] Okay, got it.

[00:46:59] I guess that was like blessing in disguise for you where it just happened and it really worked.

[00:47:04] But tell me about the location that you got the house.

[00:47:07] Whose house was that?

[00:47:08] Like you got it on rent?

[00:47:10] What was that?

[00:47:11] Yeah.

[00:47:12] We basically were able to, because we were looking at the time, and this is an idea that people can use.

[00:47:19] We were looking at the time of Airbnb.

[00:47:21] And looking at the kind of house that we were imagining when we were writing it.

[00:47:26] And then we got in touch with several people.

[00:47:29] One of them was an actor in the film.

[00:47:32] And he was able to help us with the location.

[00:47:36] Because it was a relative of his that was ready to get out on Airbnb.

[00:47:40] So we couldn't go there.

[00:47:41] But we were able to get a better deal through that.

[00:47:45] And so we did and we used it.

[00:47:47] It was very, very useful.

[00:47:50] It saved us a good bit of money.

[00:47:53] Yeah.

[00:47:54] Okay.

[00:47:55] It also was easier to get permission to shoot a film.

[00:47:59] Because you can just rent a house and make a film there.

[00:48:02] Exactly.

[00:48:04] I guess you guys told them that you're going to use this for a movie.

[00:48:07] How was that?

[00:48:08] Oh yeah, they knew.

[00:48:09] They were quite excited about the fact that a film was being...

[00:48:13] You know, a lot of people like that.

[00:48:16] It's a small place, the Isle of Wight.

[00:48:19] It's this one.

[00:48:20] And it's the Isle of Wight.

[00:48:22] And it's not a huge community.

[00:48:25] So when something happens, like a film is being shot there,

[00:48:28] everyone kind of knows about it.

[00:48:30] Great.

[00:48:31] And they're quite excited to have a film shot in their house.

[00:48:35] And the owner is, I think, Tim's mother-in-law.

[00:48:39] So they were quite happy to help him as well to make this happen.

[00:48:43] Yeah, now that's great.

[00:48:45] That's great.

[00:48:46] Having the support from the cast also helps you a lot to get that extra edge

[00:48:51] if you go off the schedule where you have to shoot something,

[00:48:56] but you know this and then they can allow.

[00:48:58] So that's also a good part.

[00:48:59] So I guess 13, 14 hours every six days and more than one year.

[00:49:06] It took a lot to make this film happen.

[00:49:08] There's one part I'd like to discuss more about where I wrote it down

[00:49:13] because I really found it interesting.

[00:49:15] So there's something with Liv Beg, I guess.

[00:49:19] Mia, she played Mia, the daughter.

[00:49:21] There's relation between Mia and Cody.

[00:49:25] Tell me about because that was really interesting

[00:49:29] because it got hooked with the grandma story.

[00:49:31] That's where it started building up, but it got more into,

[00:49:34] hey, this is new angle.

[00:49:36] What's happening here when they go up?

[00:49:38] And it's completely out in the picture.

[00:49:40] There's a kid also at the same time.

[00:49:42] So first of all, tell me about this angle with Mia and Cody

[00:49:45] and what was that throughout the story?

[00:49:48] Who came up with it?

[00:49:50] How you designed that?

[00:49:53] It's very difficult to look back and say who came up with what.

[00:49:57] We both come up with it.

[00:50:00] So that was on the spot?

[00:50:02] Like you came up with the script?

[00:50:04] That was interesting.

[00:50:06] But who came up with it, we can't tell you

[00:50:08] because when we come up with stuff,

[00:50:10] I have no idea what my idea was maxed out.

[00:50:15] Oh, okay. No, no, no. I'm not talking about that.

[00:50:17] Okay, I'm saying, what was it?

[00:50:21] I guess the story was thieves coming up inside the house for the stay

[00:50:26] and Mia suddenly is like there's kind of attractive energy between both of those.

[00:50:32] So that's what you don't want to see.

[00:50:36] That's the question.

[00:50:37] Yes, we wanted to scare.

[00:50:40] There's different types of incidents,

[00:50:42] there's different types of terror that you can have.

[00:50:46] And as Max said there, I think as a parent,

[00:50:49] the last thing you want is criminals into your house, right?

[00:50:53] And then one of them has a shine for your daughter, right?

[00:50:57] So you think you're thinking the worst.

[00:50:59] And in our story,

[00:51:01] Mia recognizes that this man obviously has an eye for her.

[00:51:05] So she uses that to her own advantage.

[00:51:09] So she doesn't really like him,

[00:51:11] but as you can see near the end of the film.

[00:51:13] Yeah, yeah, that end of the film.

[00:51:15] But she uses that advantage well, she can.

[00:51:19] Because at that time, Cody could have found the little brother.

[00:51:24] So she uses that to distract him, the fact that he likes her.

[00:51:28] Distract him from the fact that there's a kid in the wardrobe that they're trying to keep secret.

[00:51:32] So she kind of like has this power that we thought would be interesting.

[00:51:38] And I think she does a really good job with that.

[00:51:40] Yep, yep, yep, completely.

[00:51:42] So here's one more part.

[00:51:44] Now, this is a part where we actually are breaking down some important parts.

[00:51:47] So it's not about people knowing what's happening in the story,

[00:51:50] but importantly, what happened at that point?

[00:51:54] Why you did that?

[00:51:55] It's more about talking to director, not about revealing something.

[00:51:58] That's the thing.

[00:51:59] So the second part is there's only two points here now.

[00:52:03] Sophie and Tyler.

[00:52:04] Tyler was father, right?

[00:52:06] Joseph, bearing Santa hat.

[00:52:07] Yeah, yeah.

[00:52:08] So he was Joseph and Sophie was in the gang.

[00:52:13] So that murder part, that part where he actually used that knife.

[00:52:20] And tell me about why Vane who's playing Ray kills her.

[00:52:25] Now one is dead.

[00:52:26] He shot.

[00:52:27] That's down.

[00:52:28] Why?

[00:52:29] What made you kill her?

[00:52:30] Like he's just snatched it.

[00:52:31] It's not shown.

[00:52:32] It just felt.

[00:52:33] Yeah.

[00:52:34] And it's not sure.

[00:52:35] It said he goes outside and he says, hey, now your partner and my friend or partner is dead.

[00:52:41] And that's what he said.

[00:52:42] So how was that?

[00:52:44] What led you to do that?

[00:52:47] That scene in general has a lot of chaos and a lot of things, a lot of stress for everyone involved.

[00:52:54] But she keeps on screaming because she's wounded and it will eventually alert the neighbors.

[00:53:01] Maybe they call the police or whatever.

[00:53:04] So to shut her down, he kills her.

[00:53:10] OK, so he's the decision maker.

[00:53:13] Well, he was stressed.

[00:53:14] What can I do?

[00:53:15] Oh, yeah.

[00:53:17] You see it in his face.

[00:53:18] And I think Wayne does a really good job there of going, what am I going to do?

[00:53:23] Because he knows that the way that she's been wounded in that part of the leg, there's a femoral artery there.

[00:53:29] She will bleed out.

[00:53:30] She will die.

[00:53:31] You know, unless you can get an ambulance here right now, which they can't obviously because they're criminals.

[00:53:37] So they haven't got that choice.

[00:53:40] And so the other choices to work, shut her mouth for like an hour while she slowly bleeds out while screaming.

[00:53:45] Why don't you scream?

[00:53:47] So realistically, the only option he had in his mind was to just kill her and that'll keep her quiet at least.

[00:53:54] He's still trying to save the family.

[00:53:56] That's the thing.

[00:53:58] Wayne Ray, you know, the character of Ray, he tries to save the family and he makes increasingly poorer and poorer.

[00:54:06] Decisions to do that.

[00:54:09] Those two characters weren't best friends anyway.

[00:54:14] Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, I get it.

[00:54:17] Yeah, he slaps her in a way.

[00:54:19] He slaps her, she challenges him earlier.

[00:54:21] She gives him attitude if he doesn't want that.

[00:54:25] She questions his authority anyway.

[00:54:27] I guess that maybe sways him a little bit.

[00:54:31] Makes it easier.

[00:54:34] There's no acceptance of he as a leader of that whole group.

[00:54:39] So that's why she is thinking at the same time, hey, I'm also at the same level.

[00:54:43] He is and that's where I get the battle is.

[00:54:45] That's exactly right.

[00:54:46] Yeah, that's exactly right.

[00:54:47] He thinks he's the boss and he acts like he's the boss.

[00:54:49] He's not the boss.

[00:54:50] The boss got killed before we even start the film.

[00:54:52] So there is no leader in that.

[00:54:56] Yeah, you know, bad guys.

[00:54:57] But he acts like the leader and that rubs Sophie the wrong way.

[00:55:01] That's what led to all that I saw.

[00:55:04] OK, now here's the thing.

[00:55:06] One more part of yours that you mentioned in the part just just give me one sec.

[00:55:15] Action because action because that happens, you know, when the guy dies and afterwards there's a big chaos in between you or the whole family at the same time.

[00:55:27] So the shooting procedure when you're shooting all these things, I guess it's happening in one location.

[00:55:33] And how many people you had in the house when you're shooting this?

[00:55:37] How was the camera arrangements?

[00:55:39] How you were recording every reactions you like you restructured it because it's kind of impromptu, you know, something that you told me that you never told them it's going to happen happened in front of them.

[00:55:50] And you wanted to grab the natural reaction.

[00:55:52] OK, this is how they are going to react.

[00:55:54] And I want that natural reaction.

[00:55:56] So how you structured it?

[00:55:57] Were there any maps that you did?

[00:55:59] OK, this is how we are going to do that.

[00:56:00] You do the settings.

[00:56:01] This is the diagram or they can go anywhere and we can just follow up that whole chaos.

[00:56:05] What was that?

[00:56:06] Well, we storyboarded the whole film as a backup so that we don't forget anything and have some idea for some shots.

[00:56:15] But then we came to a case and say, OK, we have to shoot it differently or ideas come up on the day.

[00:56:22] But if you mentioned this specific chaos scene that was quite ambitious from us because we shot it as a one, the whole scene in one go.

[00:56:33] We have two cameras shooting into the other room because we see from the kitchen into the hallway and then into the living room.

[00:56:41] So there are people in every room.

[00:56:44] Yeah, we have everyone in that scene and there's a lot of happening.

[00:56:50] And we did a couple of takes to get it right.

[00:56:55] And then we thought, OK, we have it now and this is going to be a one with no cuts.

[00:57:01] And then in the edits we found out maybe we can cut away to some stuff that makes it better.

[00:57:08] Yeah, we only do one cutaway into the corridor, I think.

[00:57:13] And then we go back to the one or.

[00:57:16] Yeah, there's some some some cheeky stuff in there.

[00:57:19] One cut you don't even notice.

[00:57:22] This is true.

[00:57:23] That scene we reversed quite a lot.

[00:57:26] Actually, because there's blood involved and then we have to clean everything up and do it again.

[00:57:32] It's time consuming.

[00:57:35] There are six times I think that scene.

[00:57:38] So we shot it.

[00:57:41] Our camera operator Dong Ji Wei.

[00:57:44] Amazing, amazing work because he was able to go from looking at the door to looking at the body to looking at Cody and Ray holding off the family and looking back at Wayne and looking back at the body.

[00:58:00] You know all of that was done in one take and he had to refocus every time.

[00:58:05] Amazing work by Cameron.

[00:58:07] We asked a lot of him.

[00:58:08] You normally don't do this because it is not easy.

[00:58:12] We asked one of everyone on that day because we wanted the chaos to feel real.

[00:58:18] And you know, we wanted to feel like everyone is really panicking.

[00:58:21] We wanted to and this is the one time we had every single character apart from Eli, the kid, on screen at the same time all acting together at the same time.

[00:58:32] We had a few scenes where they're all doing stuff but this one is requiring them all.

[00:58:37] We had an extra camera that I don't think we ever used any takes from.

[00:58:41] Max, did we use any of the takes from the living room?

[00:58:44] Yes.

[00:58:45] Did we?

[00:58:46] Yes.

[00:58:47] Because I thought we didn't even use that one.

[00:58:48] So you guys actually rehearsed it six times on set or was there any prep before making it?

[00:58:54] Everything was done on set?

[00:58:56] We shot it six times.

[00:58:58] We rehearsed it like three or four times.

[00:59:01] Yeah.

[00:59:02] Okay, so in one day you did that.

[00:59:04] It was the first half of the day.

[00:59:06] It's the only time we spend that long on a scene.

[00:59:09] You know, because we just wanted to get the momentum right and we wanted to hit all the right emotional notes because it's a chaotic scene where really what happens is the criminal suffer a loss because one of their criminal friends is gone.

[00:59:25] But mostly the family is who's suffering here.

[00:59:28] They're not prepared for this.

[00:59:30] Obviously, it's their relatives that.

[00:59:33] So yeah, it was difficult to get all the little things playing right.

[00:59:37] At the same time, the energy is also very important.

[00:59:40] You know, you could lose the energy what you had in the first take and then fifth it's completely lost or it's exaggerated or it's exhausted.

[00:59:47] You know, you can see that difference.

[00:59:50] But yeah, six takes, I guess you spend a lot of energy and a lot of time on particular scene.

[00:59:55] So who was your DOP?

[00:59:57] You know, I guess you had some guys how you guys connected, you know, told everything to them.

[01:00:03] Was there anything that was really that you were very keen about?

[01:00:07] You should not miss this.

[01:00:09] Yeah, our DOP is Matt.

[01:00:13] We met him in film school as well.

[01:00:17] He's the third member of our company.

[01:00:20] OK, OK.

[01:00:21] So how about the communication was with him during this?

[01:00:25] On this scene, he had to be somewhere else so we couldn't use him for that.

[01:00:31] That's why our apprelator, Don't You Wake, stepped in.

[01:00:35] Wow, that's good that you know, sometimes important things.

[01:00:40] Yeah, go on, go on, go on.

[01:00:42] For the most time of the film, we had one camera shooting what we planned.

[01:00:48] And the other one was free to plow around and look at what he thinks is right.

[01:00:55] OK, OK, this is how you work it.

[01:00:58] But you know, sometimes when we're going to shoot something really important,

[01:01:02] these things happen, you know, where our best guy is not in stock and something is happening with him.

[01:01:09] I guess because I guess this is very important.

[01:01:11] You planned it six times like, hey, we have this guy who's going to do it and then he doesn't show up.

[01:01:17] I guess this kind of things happen when something important is going on.

[01:01:21] But great, great.

[01:01:23] You have a great team.

[01:01:24] How many years it took for you to build the core team for your RCC?

[01:01:30] Well, I would say we started building the team while we were still at film school because, you know, Matt is still a part of our team.

[01:01:37] We met him there at film school.

[01:01:39] He was the third person in our crew as somebody more technical, you know, who has obviously a lot of years of experience working on things.

[01:01:49] He did some of the lighting in Transformers, in the movie Fury with Brad Pitt and a few others.

[01:01:55] So he has experience in the industry at a high level, which gave us quite a lot of edge and a good edge.

[01:02:04] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:02:06] And we started working with him right there at film school in 2017.

[01:02:11] So we would learn from him as well when he had to do something urgently during the shooting of Thieves.

[01:02:18] We were OK because he had given enough instruction to our cameraman and I think we were not panicking.

[01:02:27] We were OK.

[01:02:29] We had been working.

[01:02:30] So every time we make a project, you know, you meet new people.

[01:02:35] But some you want to keep for next time.

[01:02:39] You know, every time we meet someone that we want to work with, we want to work with them again.

[01:02:43] And it's the same with actors and it's the same with crew.

[01:02:47] So you slowly build it up, I guess.

[01:02:49] Yeah, it's a slow process.

[01:02:51] At the same time, there's a process where the shedding happens, where the core part is there.

[01:02:56] But the people you think we might think this will stay but suddenly drops out.

[01:03:01] This is a shedding process that happens in every company and specifically related to creative and art filled.

[01:03:06] I guess that's the process that you went through.

[01:03:09] OK, these are the people I guess for five months these guys will stay with us and these are good people.

[01:03:13] But yeah, meeting new people and then connecting with them, bonding with them is the process that you guys are following up from the day that you started up.

[01:03:21] Great.

[01:03:22] Now tell me one detail just for protocol.

[01:03:25] It was war machine.

[01:03:27] War machine.

[01:03:29] Sorry, no theory.

[01:03:31] War machine.

[01:03:32] OK, his name is Matt.

[01:03:34] What's his name?

[01:03:35] Matt Button.

[01:03:37] OK, Matt, you got your credit corrected.

[01:03:40] OK, yeah.

[01:03:41] And now here's the thing.

[01:03:43] How do you now tell me this is the part where you are sitting in RCC every morning.

[01:03:47] I don't know because you are now in Austria.

[01:03:49] He is in England.

[01:03:50] How you guys operate, but you're sitting on team.

[01:03:52] There's a lot of ideas flowing up.

[01:03:54] How do you approach?

[01:03:56] OK, this idea is interesting, but sometimes Max says OK, but this is not working with this idea or the script is good.

[01:04:02] But OK, we can't manage the budget inside this script because it will take a lot of locations and all.

[01:04:07] So how do you guys approach for one particular project where you two minds think?

[01:04:13] OK, we are sinking and this is the project we are going to do.

[01:04:17] OK, well, here's the thing.

[01:04:20] We usually kind of know what the next project is anyway.

[01:04:24] Now between us we have that's what I want to know how you know.

[01:04:28] Like, yeah, how it's just just vibes.

[01:04:31] No, we we know.

[01:04:34] So this story that we are writing right now, we're writing a script right now.

[01:04:38] This is exclusive information.

[01:04:40] Nobody else knows about it.

[01:04:43] Right now, which is which is a kind of a version of that original script we wanted to make all those years ago before we made thieves in the night.

[01:04:53] This is this is this is the original serial killer kind of story that we wanted to tell the one that we didn't have the budget for that time.

[01:05:01] So that so that we wrote these so that it's filmable.

[01:05:05] Well, this is that story come back now.

[01:05:08] Finally, all those years later, we knew it was going to be probably our second project and we played with it as a TV show for a little while.

[01:05:18] And then we decided that actually now we're going to restructure it.

[01:05:22] It's a very tight, very, very nice movie.

[01:05:26] It's still a serial killer. I don't want to give too much away.

[01:05:29] It's still a serial killer.

[01:05:31] And and yeah, and fans of thieves in the night will find something to like in it.

[01:05:35] I'm sure.

[01:05:37] So yellow style.

[01:05:40] Yes.

[01:05:41] OK, OK.

[01:05:42] So one thing I got from you is you guys know that, OK, this is it.

[01:05:48] And you both know at the same time, OK, this is what because, OK, the sink is very tight.

[01:05:52] That, OK, that's it.

[01:05:54] You know, it's going to match what we have with us.

[01:05:57] And that's how you decide there's no other ideas where is there any disagreement with the idea that you want to make film and you don't want to make film?

[01:06:04] And you don't want or you don't think like this will work?

[01:06:08] Is there kind of like projects that came to you in six, seven years?

[01:06:13] So also how we choose projects.

[01:06:16] We have a lot of script in the pipeline to work on.

[01:06:19] We're basically choosing by budget.

[01:06:21] Yeah.

[01:06:23] What do we work your way out?

[01:06:25] What can we what is at the level that we're at now?

[01:06:28] Because there's no and people make this mistake.

[01:06:31] So again, this is, you know, part of your audience is up and coming filmmakers.

[01:06:36] This is an important thing to keep in mind.

[01:06:38] Write something that you can afford to make because you can't afford to make it.

[01:06:43] Then there's no point writing it that way.

[01:06:46] It's either going to look amateurish if you haven't got the budget to do those things that you want to do.

[01:06:51] So I don't know if you want to have a dinosaur fighting an alien or something.

[01:06:55] Right. Well, don't write that if you've only got twenty thousand dollars to spend because it's not going to look good.

[01:07:00] And there's no point doing that.

[01:07:02] But so writing to your level where you are in the industry is important.

[01:07:07] There's no point writing huge action sequences with 300 extras if you don't have the budget to do that.

[01:07:13] You know, so yeah, that's also how we choose our project.

[01:07:17] We're thinking, OK, so now we've got we can maybe afford to do that.

[01:07:22] So yeah, that's kind of a practical call here for every indie filmmaker who's going to do it.

[01:07:28] It's kind of practical call. OK, how much I have in my bank account and how much I'm going to spend and then make sure that this is financially a proper project for me where there's win-win situation rather than just burning out and getting lost in middle of the project.

[01:07:43] So I guess yeah, this is a good call where you decide the budget and then what if this is the budget we have, what can we make?

[01:07:50] And OK, that's how you go ahead with it.

[01:07:52] OK, great. It's important.

[01:07:55] It's not restricting us, but having some restrictions.

[01:07:58] I mean, that's a calculated move. That's very important.

[01:08:01] You know, it doesn't break you in between, you know, in the middle of that whole thing happening because once you started, then we are creative person.

[01:08:09] You want to make it happen.

[01:08:10] That's the thing. Once the creative guy starts it, then it's like, OK, I'm going to make it anyhow.

[01:08:15] But sometimes, you know, it's good to calculate that.

[01:08:19] What might be interesting for the audience is also how we did it with thieves because we didn't have a big budget either for this one.

[01:08:27] We submitted the script to some screenplay competitions, one or two awards.

[01:08:34] And yeah, so we said to the actors, we may have not even money to pay you.

[01:08:41] We give you a house, we feed you, but we'll probably not be able to give you a salary.

[01:08:48] So that's not really nice.

[01:08:51] So we said, OK, here's the deal for those three weeks.

[01:08:56] None of us get paid, but everyone gets the same share of the film.

[01:09:02] So at the end of the film, it makes profit.

[01:09:04] You get the same amount as we do for those three weeks.

[01:09:09] So everyone likes the scripts and wants to work with us.

[01:09:13] OK, I'm taking the risk.

[01:09:16] Everyone, cast and crew is alive.

[01:09:19] And I thought that is a fair way if you don't have the money to have a big salary for everyone, at least give them profit participation.

[01:09:29] The profit participation method is a great way of doing things because it gives you two things from a filmmaker's point of view.

[01:09:36] It gives you the option of doing this because paying everyone their salary is expensive and it will make the budget much bigger.

[01:09:46] But if everyone is in the same boat, including us, then what it does is it makes everyone a lot more motivated to do the job.

[01:09:54] Because, you know, yeah, OK, the expenses are being paid, but they're not being paid for the time that they need to be paid for really.

[01:10:01] And they won't be paid unless the movie does well.

[01:10:04] So everyone is pulling in the same direction because everyone wants to be paid eventually.

[01:10:10] And as much as I think they all agreed and were happy with the script and they were excited, and that's why those awards were good.

[01:10:19] And it made them really believe in the project, I think, which I think you can see on screen.

[01:10:25] I think everyone does amazingly.

[01:10:29] This is the one thing that I heard for the first time that distributing the share equally and nobody gets paid before.

[01:10:37] And while the film is shot, the one thing I liked is the clarity when you went on board with this and got those guys that there was a clarity.

[01:10:48] OK, this is how we are moving ahead.

[01:10:50] And people who are interested and people we think are good for the cast, are you going ahead with this?

[01:10:55] Is that a yes or no?

[01:10:57] And that's how you got ahead.

[01:10:58] That's good clarity because then once that part is off the mind, you know, you work with all of your energy.

[01:11:06] Because once you know, OK, this is it.

[01:11:08] And yeah, I'm interested.

[01:11:09] Then the whole energy goes into making that shot look good or, you know, giving 100 percent.

[01:11:15] I guess that's the one thing that that really, you know, gets people going creative throughout that filming process.

[01:11:23] And at some point when you make the decision, you have to be making this.

[01:11:30] If you wait till everything is perfect, you've got enough money to pay everyone, then maybe you'll never make it.

[01:11:37] So we knew we could afford the location, food and rent for everyone.

[01:11:41] So we said, yeah, we're moving ahead anyway.

[01:11:44] We're not letting the non-existing budget stop us.

[01:11:49] So that's where we got this ability to give profit per situation away.

[01:11:54] Great call, great call, great call.

[01:11:56] Now we are.

[01:11:58] Yeah.

[01:11:59] And I think one last thing, shooting with two cameras, you young directors out there, shoot with two cameras.

[01:12:05] It saves you so much time because, you know, normally you have to do a whole extra setup in another take.

[01:12:12] If you want to get some individual close up reactions, but if you're shooting with two cameras and over the six, seven days, you get all the reactions individually on the second camera.

[01:12:20] So it saved us a lot of time.

[01:12:23] We wouldn't have been able to film this thing in three weeks if we were only shooting with one camera.

[01:12:28] Just wouldn't have happened.

[01:12:29] Also, the expert who has some kind of experience for five years, I guess, which will make your job more easier, you know, because that guy knows his job and you are free.

[01:12:38] Yeah, you are free with that.

[01:12:40] Okay.

[01:12:41] Well, here's the thing.

[01:12:42] I'm running out of time here in the co-working space at this moment.

[01:12:45] So I'd like to jump right back.

[01:12:46] I guess we covered major part of this film.

[01:12:48] Now I'd like to jump on the last portion of this interview where it's kind of rapid fire.

[01:12:53] I think it is a rapid fire, but I don't know how it can be a rapid fire.

[01:12:56] But here are some questions that you can answer one by one, Ted, then Max.

[01:13:01] Biggest lesson learned from directing this film?

[01:13:04] Oh, biggest lesson learned from directing this film.

[01:13:11] Feed your actors well.

[01:13:15] Yeah, you don't want hungry, upset actors.

[01:13:18] Yeah, then give it another.

[01:13:21] Get good sound people.

[01:13:24] Sound is more important than camera.

[01:13:26] That's the biggest lesson for filmmakers.

[01:13:29] Sound.

[01:13:31] Sound.

[01:13:32] Sound.

[01:13:33] Spend all your money on sound.

[01:13:36] That's what I'm doing.

[01:13:38] That's the whole show is about.

[01:13:40] Okay, if you could direct any genre next, what would it be?

[01:13:45] It would be the same answer for both because we're working on an extra project.

[01:13:49] It's a thriller, slasher, action, dark comedy.

[01:13:56] I don't know.

[01:13:57] It's one of ours.

[01:13:59] Okay, great.

[01:14:00] But it's the same, I guess, for you.

[01:14:02] But if you took an experimental call, what would it be?

[01:14:05] A slasher comedy.

[01:14:08] Yeah, slasher comedy is the next thing that we're working on.

[01:14:13] But we also have a martial arts film and a sci-fi series planned as well as other things knocking around as ideas.

[01:14:22] So in the pipeline, I guess.

[01:14:24] The sequence of these in a night could be an animated film.

[01:14:27] Yeah, style.

[01:14:28] You like going on a ramp stream.

[01:14:30] Yeah.

[01:14:31] Yeah.

[01:14:32] Eli's Revenge, you know, it's right there in the credits.

[01:14:35] But I don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

[01:14:39] But I do think we have some ideas.

[01:14:42] Well, it was a western would be nice.

[01:14:44] It also could be an animated.

[01:14:46] A western.

[01:14:47] A western would be nice.

[01:14:49] Yeah, we have less time, you know.

[01:14:50] We are not discussing that much.

[01:14:52] But the third one, silent scene versus dialogue heavy scenes.

[01:14:56] Dialogue heavy scenes.

[01:14:57] Yeah.

[01:14:58] On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate the stress level during production?

[01:15:04] One to ten.

[01:15:07] Production I would say between five and eleven.

[01:15:11] Before production, I think it was a constant seven.

[01:15:15] Okay, okay, you Max?

[01:15:17] Eight.

[01:15:18] Eight.

[01:15:19] Just because of the time pressure.

[01:15:20] Yeah.

[01:15:21] Yeah, got it.

[01:15:22] Who's the peacemaker when disagreements arise on set?

[01:15:25] I think both.

[01:15:26] I think both of us at different times.

[01:15:32] Okay, I get it now.

[01:15:34] That's what I can get.

[01:15:36] It's not as different.

[01:15:38] I was upset several times during the making of this film.

[01:15:41] And there is stuff.

[01:15:43] And also Max was upset several times.

[01:15:45] But it was never the same time.

[01:15:47] So when I was upset, Max was fine.

[01:15:49] He took care of things.

[01:15:50] And then when Max was again upset, I took care of things.

[01:15:53] So we were never upset at the same thing, which is good.

[01:15:56] Got it.

[01:15:57] I get it Max.

[01:15:58] The silence is complete answer.

[01:16:00] Yeah, same thing.

[01:16:02] There was no big drama on set.

[01:16:04] No, it went very well.

[01:16:06] We often say it was kind of like doing a school trip and then making a film while you're doing it.

[01:16:11] That's good energy.

[01:16:13] Because everyone lived together.

[01:16:15] And so we spent time after shooting and before and had coffee and lunch and dinner together.

[01:16:22] We all lived in the murder house.

[01:16:24] Okay, well now night shoots or day shoots?

[01:16:27] Night shoots.

[01:16:29] Okay.

[01:16:31] Day shoots.

[01:16:33] Favorite scene in the movie?

[01:16:35] I really like the movie.

[01:16:37] I think it's the movie.

[01:16:39] I think it's the movie.

[01:16:41] I think it's the movie.

[01:16:43] I think it's the movie.

[01:16:45] I think it's the movie.

[01:16:47] I really like the first time Mia gets grabbed by the throat and put in the kitchen right in the beginning of the film.

[01:16:59] I thought that was quite a tense scene and we shot it quite well, I think.

[01:17:02] Okay.

[01:17:03] The base scene.

[01:17:09] The base scene where there's fucking base.

[01:17:12] Okay.

[01:17:14] Yeah, where Cody's talking to Uncle Ben about his big jumper.

[01:17:18] Okay, wow, wow.

[01:17:20] The one prop you wish you could keep?

[01:17:27] I kept the prop that I wish I could keep.

[01:17:33] The gun from the bad guys.

[01:17:35] I have it somewhere around here.

[01:17:37] Cody, I guess Cody had that gun.

[01:17:40] Cody had the big gun.

[01:17:41] I have the smaller, more elegant gun.

[01:17:43] Smaller one?

[01:17:44] Okay, okay.

[01:17:45] I have Uncle Ben's face cardigan, but I would like to have Cody's gun.

[01:17:50] Okay.

[01:17:51] I think so, I don't know.

[01:17:55] Okay.

[01:17:57] Most challenging scene to film?

[01:18:01] Most challenging scene.

[01:18:05] I don't know.

[01:18:06] There was one where a certain character is dying at the end of the film.

[01:18:11] I don't want to reveal who it is.

[01:18:13] We have seen the film now who is dying at the end of the film.

[01:18:17] His scene was very challenging because we had to shoot it in two separate days.

[01:18:22] It was the only scene that was shot in two separate days because we didn't have a certain actor for that scene, but we needed to get some pickups and we had to make it look like it was shot on the same day, which was a bit tricky.

[01:18:35] Other than that, I think everything was quite straightforward.

[01:18:39] Got it, got it, got it.

[01:18:40] You, Max?

[01:18:41] I would say the big chaos scene just because of the blood involved.

[01:18:45] Yeah, and we have to clean it every time.

[01:18:48] Oh yeah.

[01:18:50] The biggest risk that you guys took in making Thieves in the Night?

[01:18:57] Ooh, the biggest risk.

[01:19:00] I mean, making it.

[01:19:06] Just doing it because it made such a big difference to our lives.

[01:19:12] You won awards.

[01:19:14] We won awards.

[01:19:16] We can win more awards.

[01:19:18] I would like more awards, if anything.

[01:19:21] But the thing is, it was a big risk for us because A, well, you can't do anything else for money in that month.

[01:19:29] It's a month.

[01:19:30] So no job is just going to give you a month off.

[01:19:32] It's very difficult.

[01:19:34] And personally, yeah, so the risk was just doing this.

[01:19:38] Just going to the Isle of Wight.

[01:19:40] I understand the money part, you know?

[01:19:42] That's where you can't do anything for money.

[01:19:45] Yeah, got it.

[01:19:46] You, Max, go on.

[01:19:48] That we're not able to finish it, that we're running out of time and we only have one goal at this film.

[01:19:54] If we fuck it up, then it's done.

[01:19:57] So we don't get a second chance.

[01:19:59] This was our first feature film, so we didn't know.

[01:20:02] Does our schedule work out?

[01:20:05] Yeah, were we too ambitious?

[01:20:07] Did we expect too much?

[01:20:09] All these things.

[01:20:11] Because Max is right.

[01:20:13] We only had one shot of making...

[01:20:15] You can only make your first film once, right?

[01:20:17] And if it's really bad, it doesn't make it easier for you to make your next one.

[01:20:24] As hard as it is to make a film, it's even harder if you've already made a really bad one.

[01:20:29] The energy, the motivation is gone.

[01:20:33] Yeah, exactly.

[01:20:34] But also, as we said in the beginning, investors don't like risk.

[01:20:39] So if you've already made a bad movie, then they're not going to give you their money to make another bad movie.

[01:20:46] So the first one, there's a lot of writing on it.

[01:20:49] But it's helped, obviously, all of us since to continue making projects and whatnot.

[01:20:55] But making the first one is the hardest.

[01:20:57] The first one is the hardest.

[01:20:58] So my advice to people is make sure it's something that you can film.

[01:21:03] Don't write aliens and zombies if you can't afford them.

[01:21:07] And I was telling people for years now I'm going to make a movie, for years.

[01:21:11] And then if I make one and it sucks or not even get finished, then I would be quite embarrassed.

[01:21:17] Yeah, yeah.

[01:21:18] Public embarrassment is a big factor of how not to fail.

[01:21:23] Got it, got it.

[01:21:24] But everyone, everyone wants you to do it because they will keep you motivated.

[01:21:32] You know?

[01:21:33] Got it, got it.

[01:21:36] Now, here's the thing.

[01:21:38] This is the last part of thank you first of all for answering all the question in very proper way, in real way and telling all your struggles through this questions that you faced while making this film.

[01:21:49] I guess I can continue this format.

[01:21:51] It's working really well.

[01:21:52] This is the first time I tried it.

[01:21:54] First now for a kid who's just starting out, who's 20, 21, I guess 26, directing maybe it's 30.

[01:22:02] Someone amateur in a way starting out like it's his first month or first year who's looking to jump into this field and who is doing some kind of work or a job while actually dreaming of making it just like you, you know, someone in the bank who's looking to do something well while writing a screenplay of some karate scene, kung fu scene.

[01:22:22] And someone like you who knows what he's doing but is selling something and he think like, okay, it's not possible.

[01:22:28] So I think this is what I am and this is what I'm going to do and that's me now.

[01:22:32] But then text a call that, hey, I think I need to do this now and I'm done with this.

[01:22:37] I'm not going to sell anymore.

[01:22:40] I'm not going to teach anymore.

[01:22:41] Teaching is good, but I try to manage it.

[01:22:44] But now I think that this is the way this is the time now.

[01:22:47] I believe it.

[01:22:48] I can't do two things at one time.

[01:22:50] So for someone who is kind of you or who's looking to be in this field, what advice you'd like to give to that guy or girl?

[01:22:58] One by one.

[01:23:00] So I would say prepare yourself.

[01:23:04] Prepare yourself.

[01:23:06] And then take the plunge.

[01:23:09] So like prepare yourself as much as you can and then jump because there's two things that happen here.

[01:23:16] Either you try but you don't know enough and you're too busy figuring things out where you should be busy organizing stuff when you get to film school.

[01:23:26] So let's say you get to film school, but you haven't done the research.

[01:23:29] You haven't gone on all the YouTube tutorials.

[01:23:32] We haven't done. You haven't got to masterclass.com and watched all of the amazing master classes.

[01:23:36] By the way, the VMS did that.

[01:23:38] We watched all the directing and all the acting.

[01:23:41] Wow, that's good.

[01:23:42] That's on that point is you should do all of that.

[01:23:46] And then once you know, once you know, you can pick up any camera and achieve the look that you want.

[01:23:52] Once you know what to say to an actor, once you know everything beyond having done it, then go to film school.

[01:23:59] And then because then you have the confidence, you know, you have all that stuff behind you.

[01:24:04] So you haven't got the question of, oh, am I going to figure it out?

[01:24:07] Am I am I going to be good at this?

[01:24:09] You should try as well.

[01:24:10] You should make a couple of little terrible, terrible films because you could have learned so much from making terrible, terrible films.

[01:24:16] And yeah, so learn, learn, learn and then jump and practice, practice, practice.

[01:24:23] That's your correct.

[01:24:25] Max?

[01:24:26] I would say fake it till you make it.

[01:24:29] Fake it till you make it.

[01:24:31] Fake it till you make it works.

[01:24:32] Once you have a script ready to shoot, set a shooting date and don't wait for everything being perfect.

[01:24:40] Just do it.

[01:24:41] And I was told we had to make a lot of music videos, a lot of short films and work your way up to start directing.

[01:24:49] And that says who?

[01:24:50] We made two or three short films to learn the mistakes.

[01:24:53] And then we made a film.

[01:24:55] Yeah.

[01:24:57] Do it.

[01:24:58] Just do it.

[01:24:59] Just do it.

[01:25:00] I guess this this kind of, you know, learn, learn, learn what I got from you, Ted, is where you actually structured.

[01:25:09] OK, this is what I want.

[01:25:11] And OK, now I need to divide this into step by step process.

[01:25:15] I can't just go in and think like, OK, I'm going to win one day.

[01:25:19] You need to chop it out into pieces.

[01:25:21] First of all, watch the YouTube, watch how people are seeing the interviews and all the master class specifically join that once you're clear with the idea and the thought.

[01:25:29] There's a lot of confidence that people can build up inside them.

[01:25:32] And I guess that's what helped you a lot.

[01:25:34] You know, you then do to a calculative thing with your scripts and all.

[01:25:40] OK, this is what I'm going to get with this and where I'm going to reach with this kind of steps.

[01:25:44] So you can calculate that any kid can do this.

[01:25:47] You know, there's the one thing that you told any kid can do this if we can calculate these steps and divide it and then distribute his energy throughout these phases.

[01:25:55] And he can reach a position where he is really where he can become really good at that.

[01:26:01] And Max, I get that the risk that you told like, hey, just do it.

[01:26:05] Just get it out of you. You have to make it.

[01:26:07] You know that there's no other thing left now.

[01:26:10] You've got to do it.

[01:26:12] And that that that what we can say that call that that jump that you have to push.

[01:26:16] Nobody else is going to push you.

[01:26:18] You have to push yourself.

[01:26:20] There's one thing, you know, any any aspiring writer, director should go for it was looking for it.

[01:26:25] But now you have to push yourself if you're really looking for it and then you have to calculate it properly.

[01:26:31] This was really great interviewing you guys.

[01:26:33] And this is really new format for me.

[01:26:35] I don't know how I'm moving forward with this, but I guess I'll try to get some guys like you, you know, telling their stories and telling how they got into this field and how they shot this film.

[01:26:44] I guess I'm going to title this as high as how I made this film and then title it at Thieves in the Night.

[01:26:51] But this is a format, I guess I'd like to interview more directors.

[01:26:55] This was great thing knowing you guys.

[01:26:57] You are talking to me from England.

[01:26:59] You are talking to me from Austria.

[01:27:00] And I'm here sitting getting to know all that the struggles that you guys faced and what kind of events that you had and how you came here in twenty twenty four with a good amount of work.

[01:27:12] And how you guys started leaving job and then leaving a bank job teacher selling something.

[01:27:18] Everyone has this kind of backgrounds, but they are not aware of.

[01:27:22] OK, it's not me. It's everyone.

[01:27:24] Now, this is one thing that should be very common with like everyone has different stories.

[01:27:28] But how you make it happen is your story.

[01:27:32] Now, that's what's going to make a difference here.

[01:27:35] So if anyone who got a good amount of learning from these guys, make sure you go and check their Instagram follow.

[01:27:41] Make sure you watch the films I'm going to look.

[01:27:43] I'm going to link everything in the description so you can check out their IMDB, their short films.

[01:27:48] I guess you can send me the links and I'm going to link that all down.

[01:27:51] And yeah, that's it.

[01:27:53] And you can connect with them if anything related to casting.

[01:27:56] If anything is there, I'm going to make sure that the mail is mentioned below.

[01:28:00] So if you're an actor, actress or aspiring ones, you would like to join the team.

[01:28:05] I'm going to link all that below so people can just call you, contact you and look for any work that you guys are offering or having.

[01:28:12] And then they can connect.

[01:28:14] So it's helpful and it's kind of collaborative.

[01:28:17] So if these guys need you, then you can go and get it.

[01:28:20] So yes, I guess that's it.

[01:28:23] It was, I guess, one hour, 40 minutes now.

[01:28:25] I had no idea.

[01:28:26] No idea.

[01:28:27] We'll go this long, but we did it.

[01:28:29] So thank you very much.

[01:28:30] Thank you.

[01:28:31] Okay, great.

[01:28:35] Hey, everyone.

[01:28:36] I guess this is the part that we end the podcast.

[01:28:39] Now, I am Ajay Tambe, the host and producer of Creative Audience.in Podcast.

[01:28:44] And now I'm signing off.

[01:28:46] And off we sign.